Wiring Diagrams

[paton]

We need vehicle specific diagrams for wiring, sensors, manual, auto, ECU selection, etc... just to name a few. The area I'm struggling in is the wiring.There are a lot of questions in the Electrical Playground, but not enough solutions and answers.

I have been asking for help with wiring for weeks, have searched all over the web and have found little to no information on the CL-S wiring. (I received a PM from another member with a link to a TL manual, but this only solves 1/3 of my issues) I understand the reluctance for some members to get too specific with it, as it affects the sale of their products.

For those of us who enjoy doing our own work, or are on a budget, we need to know how to do these things ourselves. I can't speak for others, but I have the plugs, ECU, harness, electrical tools and everything I need to do this, except quality diagrams. I need to know what goes where. I would buy the helms, but spending over $150 on manuals for 3 different vehicles isn't something I'm prepared to do.

The point of this forum is to connect, assist and share.

If I have the wrong idea, or am speaking out of my league, let me know.

[Singlecam_eg]

Wiring has always been the downfall of every new swap. U either leave it to a shop and pay or do it yourself and buy the manuals for the vehicles which ends up costing just as much. Since this swap is so new there isn't a huge amount of free info out there. I remember the same problem when the kswap was first goin around. My suggestion is you start a thread and compile all the info you can find on the wiring and eventually your awnsers will either weed themselves out OR sumone will chime in on a specific aspect of your issue.

[wolydotmatrix]

wWhat are your other 2 issues?

[RPM SYSTEMS]

the information on the wiring of the ecu is on this site . now it does don't state were the plug are in accordance of the ecu , but it give you idea what you have to do. if you look at the post under the wiring thread" j32a3 DBW ....is it worth it?" i put about half the info you will need to make you motor work .

i put that info up because i just got done dealing with a customer that had the same problem as you , and he didn't know what to do . we tried to use the 03 cl type-s manual setup on the motor and realized that , we would have to change the cam gears , cam gear plate timing belt , oil pump , lower cam gear, and the sensors . so i came out of pocket and bought the parts. well the main problem i came up with was the oil pump housing . IT WOULD NOT FIT. so that was a waste of money. so i came to the conclusion that the you need to use the DBW setup . if you did get to fit as your asking about the wires on the the crank and cam side i will give you the answers for that , if you made the oil pump form the 03 cl type-s oil pump work.

[paton]

the information on the wiring of the ecu is on this site . now it does don't state were the plug are in accordance of the ecu , but it give you idea what you have to do. if you look at the post under the wiring thread" j32a3 DBW ....is it worth it?" i put about half the info you will need to make you motor work .

i put that info up because i just got done dealing with a customer that had the same problem as you , and he didn't know what to do . we tried to use the 03 cl type-s manual setup on the motor and realized that , we would have to change the cam gears , cam gear plate timing belt , oil pump , lower cam gear, and the sensors . so i came out of pocket and bought the parts. well the main problem i came up with was the oil pump housing . IT WOULD NOT FIT. so that was a waste of money. so i came to the conclusion that the you need to use the DBW setup . if you did get to fit as your asking about the wires on the the crank and cam side i will give you the answers for that , if you made the oil pump form the 03 cl type-s oil pump work.

I dont understand why you would need to change all those parts... Was your customers engine an AUTO? If it was a MANUAL engine then I guess I need to sell my motor because based on what your saying I can't use it.

My engine is a manual, so I believe my setup will work with the CL-S ECU. Or no?

I am also using

CL-S Intake Manifold
CL-S TB
CL-S Wiring Harness

I am halfway through the wiring but have not started on the timing side, CKP, VTEC. So I guess I'm in for a surprise?

[jtrix21]

you should be fine using the manual motor.

The speedbumps are mizing and matching auto motors, for a manual setup, wires, ecu, etc.

[paton]

you should be fine using the manual motor.

The speedbumps are mizing and matching auto motors, for a manual setup, wires, ecu, etc.

Yeah but from what Don was saying it sounded like the J32A3 is an entire different breed when it comes to sensors and everything. I would imagine that dispite the wiring differences with plugs and locations, the sensors would still have the same output readings. At least this is what I hope.

If I have to change those sensors on the timing side, even though my engine is already a manual... I'll put it in a crusher and abandon my entire project.

[RPM SYSTEMS]

the j32a3 is a whole new motor . honda got smart and cut down on part so that made the perfect motor . the j32a3 and all newer motor are universal , but only if you are using the DBW electronic. in other words , there's no difference between a auto or manual motor as far as the sensors go after the J**a3 stuff . sorry to burst you bubble. the the sensor on the j32a3 do not match with the earlier j sensors stuff. but if you still can get the oil pump to fit . i will give you the answer you need .

don
rpm systems

[paton]

the j32a3 is a whole new motor . honda got smart and cut down on part so that made the perfect motor . the j32a3 and all newer motor are universal , but only if you are using the DBW electronic. in other words , there's no difference between a auto or manual motor as far as the sensors go after the J**a3 stuff . sorry to burst you bubble. the the sensor on the j32a3 do not match with the earlier j sensors stuff. but if you still can get the oil pump to fit . i will give you the answer you need .

don
rpm systems

HAHAHAHAHA....

Oh my god, this is so annoying.

I asked all these questions when I got onto this forum and you Don, along with several others told me I could use it with the right parts, all of which I have bought.

Anyways, water under the bridge... What are my options now?

Pulling what I have, changing engines, possibly the clutch, flywheel? No.

What about stand alone management? I could use that to work with the ***A3's different sensors right?

[Singlecam_eg]

I can't remember but are you the one that was converting from DBW to DBC?

[paton]

I can't remember but are you the one that was converting from DBW to DBC?

Yes. I have everything I need. I bought all the gaskets too.

I am pretty much committed to using this motor. I'm looking for suggestions on management for this thing. I'd like to keep it under $1000. I know stand alones are extremely expensive, but I plan on keeping it NA so that should shave the cost down. ECU's that have boost capabilities are usually more expensive.

[RPM SYSTEMS]

P2R has done that motor with a standalone ecu. they used a missing tooth wheel on the main pulley and made slight modifications to the wiring harness. try giving them a call . sorry if i gave you the wrong info. that is why i put up stuff on the DBW wiring . due to people that wanted to use the motor and system.

don
rpm systems

[Singlecam_eg]

Yes. I have everything I need. I bought all the gaskets too.

I am pretty much committed to using this motor. I'm looking for suggestions on management for this thing. I'd like to keep it under $1000. I know stand alones are extremely expensive, but I plan on keeping it NA so that should shave the cost down. ECU's that have boost capabilities are usually more expensive..
U can try mega squirt its about the cheapest I kno of. But is there a reason u didn't just buy the DBW pedal assembly and shit and go with a DBW setup? Prolly the same hassle u have already gone thru and it would havwe opened up a world of different motors u could swap out

[RPM SYSTEMS]

there is no pedal assembly. you still keep your stock pedals in the car. look at the thread "j32a3 DBW ....is it worth it?" and it will give you a idea about the system. and your right about the megasquirt ecu. the one i would check is DIYAUTOTUNE.com on the megasqirt systems for the parts.

don
rpm systems

[paton]

.
U can try mega squirt its about the cheapest I kno of. But is there a reason u didn't just buy the DBW pedal assembly and shit and go with a DBW setup? Prolly the same hassle u have already gone thru and it would havwe opened up a world of different motors u could swap out

With the stock ECU and DBW setup, I would have needed 5 O2's. I only had half of the wiring harness as well. Plus it's a returnless fuel setup.

I wanted to keep everything original but a lot of people convinced me to use the CL-S setup. With the ability to upgrade throttle bodies, making it cable was appealing. With the added knowledge of the CL-S as it is, I figured I would have an easier time doing the swap.

I still can't believe that Honda made these sensors so different. It just doesn't go with their trends.

So... mega squirt you say? I'll look into it, but I remember it being very labour intensive from reading about it in other forums.

[RPM SYSTEMS]

there are four O2 sensors , two are 5 wire , two are 4 wire . the 2 four wires ones you can Sim out. but for what you have us you dont have to waste anymore money is looking to go standalone system, like the megasquirt. i know you have gone though alot with is project so if i can help in any way let me know .

[paton]

there are four O2 sensors , two are 5 wire , two are 4 wire . the 2 four wires ones you can Sim out. but for what you have us you dont have to waste anymore money is looking to go standalone system, like the megasquirt. i know you have gone though alot with is project so if i can help in any way let me know .

So what do you recommend I do at this point? I no longer have my DBW throttle body. I will need an ecu and wiring harness to complete what I have. Then I still have a tonne of parts left over that I can't use. This sucks. But going all stock is the best route? Better than using the megasquirt and doing cable throttle?

[paton]

Ok I got a reply from the guys at megasquirt...

This is what he asked:

How many teeth are on the crankshaft trigger wheel? *
Are the teeth all evenly spaced, are any missing or double sized, etc?? *
How many teeth are on the camshaft trigger wheel? *
Are the crank and cam sensors Hall or VR? *
How many electrical wires go to each one? *
How many electrical wires go to each of your COPs?"

These are the answers I think I can provide...

1
2
3
4. I thought these were hall and that VR stands for Voltage Reference?
5. 3 wires to cam trigger, unknown for crank trigger.
6. 3 wires to each COP.

He also asked if I would be using my factory harness, and I'm going to say yes pending an opinion from you guys...

He's pretty confident we can make this work. I'm intrigued and once again enthusiastic about my scary situation. What do you guys think?

[Singlecam_eg]

Well isn't the harness your making factory? Or at least modified factory? Ur just eliminating all the unneeded stuff from it right? Or are u making jumpers like RPM offers? And wat did he mean by factory, factory for ur car or motor?

[RPM SYSTEMS]

if you are planning to use the megasquirt system don't use the old crank / cam sensors. use a 30/2 or 60/1 missing tooth wheel . if you look at the v6 drag car on this site he is using a missing tooth setup on this lower crank pulley. the you can use the wiring harness , by cutting it up a little and connect it to the megasquirt.

if not going to go standalone the you need a APP box , Throttle servo controller, the stock plug wires to a ECU , and a RDA-004/007 DBW ecu . you would put your stock wiring harness back on the motor . find from a donner car the plugs on the fire wall of the accord or tl , like the plug in your picture. thats if you didnt what to cut the plugs. take the stock plug wires to a ECU and pretty much wire color to color . i have the wiring diag for the DBW if you would like to try this way as well.

these are the choices you have at this point. and to answer the questions from before:

How many teeth are on the crankshaft trigger wheel? not sure on the count
Are the teeth all evenly spaced, are any missing or double sized, etc?? uneven
How many teeth are on the camshaft trigger wheel? 4 out of 6
Are the crank and cam sensors Hall or VR? hall
How many electrical wires go to each one? lower crank triggers are 2 / cam trigger 1
How many electrical wires go to each of your COPs? 3 power trigger grd

don
rpm systems

[paton]

Well isn't the harness your making factory? Or at least modified factory? Ur just eliminating all the unneeded stuff from it right? Or are u making jumpers like RPM offers? And wat did he mean by factory, factory for ur car or motor?

I think he was asking about the plugs at the ecu. I'm not 100% on what I'm going to do yet. The megasquirt is very appealing. I can run cable throttle, eliminate emissions stuff, pesky engine codes and forget the butterfly controller. I might strip apart the stock harness and redo it all the way I need, maybe tuck a bit. Who knows.

Am I getting in over my head here? I think in the end this will be more mod friendly over time.

[paton]

if you are planning to use the megasquirt system don't use the old crank / cam sensors. use a 30/2 or 60/1 missing tooth wheel . if you look at the v6 drag car on this site he is using a missing tooth setup on this lower crank pulley. the you can use the wiring harness , by cutting it up a little and connect it to the megasquirt.

what do you mean about old cam sensors and crank wheel? I can't use the ones that come stock on the engine?

[RPM SYSTEMS]

the time is unorthodox to use on a normal aftermarket ecu . if you are going the route of a standalone or megasquirt . this is what you need to do right here . and you don't need the fancy part like this , but you can get the parts you need for the site DIYAUTOTUNE.com . they have this type of 60-1 missing tooth setup in stock.

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww337/danjerusmoke/megasquirtinfo.jpg

don
rpm systems

[paton]

Very interesting. So comparably... is the cost/benefit of each system going to be comparable?

Reliability, tun-ability, upgradable?

Option 1:
Megasquirt System
New Pick Up Gear(s)
New Sensors
Modified CL-S harness

Option 2:
DBW ECU
DBW Throttle Body
Servo Assembly (TPS for Cable)
Full Factory J32A3 Wiring Harness


With the megasquirt... will I be able to use the factory cam gears, or do I need to use different cam gears along with a different crank pulley?

Is the crank pulley a bolt on affair?

How does the alternator work on a setup like this?

I am asking a tonne of questions, for that I apologize. I know little about the after market ECU sector, and any advice is very helpful. Thank you for everything so far guys.

I will try to invite Russ Patrick into this thread, from DIY. It will likely be easier for him to acquire the answers to his questions that he was asking of me.

[RPM SYSTEMS]

With the megasquirt... will I be able to use the factory cam gears,YES/ or do I need to use different cam gears along with a different crank pulley? no

Is the crank pulley a bolt on affair? a little modifications needed

How does the alternator work on a setup like this? yes

don
rpm systems

[paton]

With the megasquirt... will I be able to use the factory cam gears,YES/ or do I need to use different cam gears along with a different crank pulley? no

Is the crank pulley a bolt on affair? a little modifications needed

How does the alternator work on a setup like this? yes

don
rpm systems

I really don't know what to do. I have two very good options in front of me. I am leaning back toward factory though, it seems to be the route with the least headaches. Also the most reliable.

But all I can see ahead are dollar signs. I have invested a lot into this project already.

Do you guys think the CL-S stuff I have is of any interest to anyone else?

[paton]

Well I don't know what I'm going to do. I've spent so much money on this project already.

I'm thinking factory is probably the best way to go and will be the most reliable.

Don, can you please give me complete list of what I'll need?

Throttle position assembly (where throttle cable goes to)
DBW ECU (from what vehicle? '05 TL?)
Rest of wiring harness (J32A3)
DBW Throttle Body

[airbornerey]

Don (RPM SYSTEMS )

I want to start this swap from the beggining, What parts and engine do you recommend I start with? I want to avoid spending on things i dont need. I want to start fresh is there a page or a site where they list everything you need? Or can you help me out? Also what tranny and do you use the civic shifting mechanism? what shafts? well you get the point. I have a 2000 civic dx 2 door.

[Krisftw]

We need vehicle specific diagrams for wiring, sensors, manual, auto, ECU selection, etc... just to name a few. The area I'm struggling in is the wiring.There are a lot of questions in the Electrical Playground, but not enough solutions and answers.

I have been asking for help with wiring for weeks, have searched all over the web and have found little to no information on the CL-S wiring. (I received a PM from another member with a link to a TL manual, but this only solves 1/3 of my issues) I understand the reluctance for some members to get too specific with it, as it affects the sale of their products.

For those of us who enjoy doing our own work, or are on a budget, we need to know how to do these things ourselves. I can't speak for others, but I have the plugs, ECU, harness, electrical tools and everything I need to do this, except quality diagrams. I need to know what goes where. I would buy the helms, but spending over $150 on manuals for 3 different vehicles isn't something I'm prepared to do.

The point of this forum is to connect, assist and share.

If I have the wrong idea, or am speaking out of my league, let me know.

That's exactly what i thought. defeats the purpose of a forum is you can't share info with others. first forum I see this. Few good members who pm'd me with some info.

[RPM SYSTEMS]

a good chunk of the info on wiring i brought to this site with good intentions. then people exploited the kindness . now i don't give certain info away. the problem is nobody wants to work for it anymore . everyone what a free hand out . that is why this country is going to $h!t. at one time i gave over 80 % info to people , even though i am a shop owner / business man. because of the greedy people of this i see a lot of takers and no givers. for this it has left a bitter taste in my mouth .