INTAKE MANIFOLD:

[wolydotmatrix]

This thread will hopefully shed some light on IM's (Intake manifold). As many of you may already know the IM shape and design affects the overall performance of any engine. Turbo, Nitrous, Supercharged or Naturally Asprirated it does not matter. This being said, I would like to see some real numbers (flow) on different year IM's for the J-series if at all possible.
Let us know what you find.

[hondaboy4life]

I'd like to see some dyno comparisons of a stock j32a2 mani and the new 09 TL I/M.

[civicdrivr]

I'd like to see some dyno comparisons of a stock j32a2 mani and the new 09 TL I/M.


I will have those sometime this month

[tehnighthawk]

I want to know what the smallest (shortest) manifold is not taking into account the power it will produce?

[wolydotmatrix]

I believe the 08 tl-s has the shortest

[hondaboy4life]

i hear the new accord Intake Manifolds are the same as the '09 TL-S one. The accord auto doesnt have IABs and the accord manual does...?

[wolydotmatrix]

You are correct. IAB on 6spd MT 2008/2009 and not on the 5AT.
As far as the IM being the same , that would be nice. Just run the Auto IM and forget the IAB (Intake Air Bypass). The New IM on the Accord is shorter than previous years and is constructed of Magnesium. Maybe cheaper without the "A" emblem stamped on it.

17160-R70-A01 Honda part # IM Auto and Manual are the same
17116-R70-A00 # for upper plate Auto
17146-R70-A01 # for upper plate gasket

Should be able to reuse the lower gasket

See what you guys come up with on price, should be cheap because thier still under warranty.

[tehnighthawk]

See what you guys come up with on price, should be cheap because thier still under warranty.

$340 + shipping on bkhondaparts.com

[wolydotmatrix]

$340 + shipping on bkhondaparts.com

I'll see if I can beat that price, Maybe a member's discount. Gotta talk to de boss. Will keep you updated.

[civicdrivr]

The 3.7l TL manifold is a different part number (17160-RK2-A00). The same goes for the top plate (17140-RK1-A01). I was able to get the whole thing for $350 from my Honda dealer.

The gasket is the same, but the EGR opening on the new manifold is slightly larger compared to the old, but that doesnt cause any issues.

Right now I am troubleshooting my install. I have a high idle that is caused by a vacuum leak. Ive gone through every vacuum line and verified all gaskets were sealing properly. Ive even replaced the IACV. The only thing left is the manifold itself. Its possible the top plate is sealing properly, and it could be possible the manifold itself is leaking, due to the two piece design. Every time I hit the gas, I can hear air getting sucked in on the throttle body side of the manifold.

[wolydotmatrix]

I assume you double checked the new lower gasket and all that to make sure all the holes line up. Just how much bigger is that EGR port possible clearance issue there?? Under the T-body? Just asking. Curious to find out what's going on keep us posted on the Idle issue.

[Becoming]

Started on an aluminum manifold last night, gonna just be an open plenum{lower height then CL/TL stock manifolds}, and gonna run velocity stacks for each intake runner pointing straight up into the plenum, and will be able to keep all factory sensors with the exception of the IAB's. Hope to see a finished product by July 18th or so, then on to the dyno to see what it does. Will keep you guys posted on what happens.

[civicdrivr]

I assume you double checked the new lower gasket and all that to make sure all the holes line up. Just how much bigger is that EGR port possible clearance issue there?? Under the T-body? Just asking. Curious to find out what's going on keep us posted on the Idle issue.

Yea, all the holes line up perfectly. The EGR on the J32A2 is somewhat oval, whereas the 09 TL manifold is round. There arent any issues with it lining up though. There arent any clearance issues. Im going to go swap throttle bodies today and see if that is causing my idle issue, otherwise Ill tear into the manifold itself and verify that it is sealed correctly. This manifold works on this motor. Its been done by P2R as well as E30cabrio on A-Zine. Mine for some reason just seems to be a problem child.

Started on an aluminum manifold last night, gonna just be an open plenum{lower height then CL/TL stock manifolds}, and gonna run velocity stacks for each intake runner pointing straight up into the plenum, and will be able to keep all factory sensors with the exception of the IAB's. Hope to see a finished product by July 18th or so, then on to the dyno to see what it does. Will keep you guys posted on what happens.

Keep us updates on this, Id love to see it completed.

[Becoming]

Keep us updates on this, Id love to see it completed.

Will do, ordered the velocity stack pieces and the bit to drill out the runner holes in the base of the manifold today...So should be able to start fabricating up the rest of it by Thursday of next week.

Just can't decide if I wanna have it EGR capable or not, because I don't know if I wanna build 2 different manifolds for people who wanna run it and those who don't if it works out well...Any suggestions?

[civicdrivr]

Id block it off as long as it doesnt throw any codes.

[acidbath124]

if everything goes as planned then anybody that goes to IA in nashville in a few weeks will be able to see the manifold "Becoming" makes and see a dyno graph to go with it

[Becoming]

if everything goes as planned then anybody that goes to IA in nashville in a few weeks will be able to see the manifold "Becoming" makes and see a dyno graph to go with it

LMAO, has ANYTHING "gone as planned" yet? ..i.. ;} ..i..

[hondaboy4life]

please dont bring up IA. I still have sooo much to do. lol.

[acidbath124]

yea i guess your right maybe i should have said if some magical miracle occurs. but realistically i think if i can get axles in the next couple weeks we shud make it unless something crazy happens and the car explodes or something

[hondaboy4life]

lol who are you getting axles from?

[acidbath124]

i dont know yet i spoke with evan thursday about them and then couldn't get in touch with him friday so i dont really know but its something i am going to have to do next week if i wanna drive my car to IA

[hondaboy4life]

y next week? I havent even gotten mounts, harness, axles, or fuel stuff yet lol.

[Becoming]

Here is what I have done so far,

This is the base that will bolt to the lower runners, just gotta drill holes for the runners.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk223/becoming29/J%20Swap%20Manifold/JeremyJswap008.jpg

The "riser" that will allow it to clear the fuel rails.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk223/becoming29/J%20Swap%20Manifold/JeremyJswap007.jpg

The base of the plenum.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk223/becoming29/J%20Swap%20Manifold/JeremyJswap006.jpg

Any comments/suggestions are welcome...

[hondaboy4life]

Did you design the I/M in CAD? or just kind of fabricating something as you go? (jw)

[acidbath124]

y next week? I havent even gotten mounts, harness, axles, or fuel stuff yet lol.

i only get to work on my car two days a week and i want to be able to drive it the week before IA so we can take it to the dyno to try out the manifold before we go to nashville. but i feel ya i still have a ton of stuff to do.i have all the parts i need except for axles its just havin the "time" to do it is whats hurtin me

[Becoming]

Did you design the I/M in CAD? or just kind of fabricating something as you go? (jw)

A friend of ours{Going into aerospace engineering} helped me get the plenum{air volume} pretty close to what he says will be optimal for peak HP @ 7200 RPM, as far as design just making it less restrictive and more responsive than a factory manifold by not having the obstacles it has now.

But there will definately be at least 2 more prototypes before I settle on the final design{s}, gonna do one that i'm gonna try to fit under an uncut hood and fit along with dropping the engine placement. And also gonna do one to try and get the most power from{CL, TL, Accord} that doesn't have to worry about hood height.

Just getting kinda expensive due to all the shit i'm having to buy to make this happen...so it may take a little longer to do the 2nd and 3rd one, but that'll give me plenty of time to see what this one does to compared to the factory manifold.

[wolydotmatrix]

Keep up the work. Looks good so far.

[civicdrivr]

^ x2

I figured out my idle issue. The manifold itself is leaking. Im taking it back to Honda tomorrow to hopefully get a replacement. Right now Im back on the stock manifold, and the car is slow as hell :mad:

[Becoming]

^ x2

I figured out my idle issue. The manifold itself is leaking. Im taking it back to Honda tomorrow to hopefully get a replacement. Right now Im back on the stock manifold, and the car is slow as hell :mad:

Was thinking bout getting the 09 manifold for my 05 TL, how much did it end up costing you?

[wolydotmatrix]

^ x2

I figured out my idle issue. The manifold itself is leaking. Im taking it back to Honda tomorrow to hopefully get a replacement. :

Where was is leaking? Which Honda IM did you use?

[Becoming]

where was is leaking? Which honda im did you use?

09 tl

[civicdrivr]

Was thinking bout getting the 09 manifold for my 05 TL, how much did it end up costing you?

The manifold and top cover ran me $350 with a discount. That doesnt include the new tb and adapter and other misc parts.

Where was is leaking? Which Honda IM did you use?

The rear near the brake booster vacuum line. It was the 09 TL SH-AWD manifold.

[PowerRevRacing]

Any update on the custom intake manifold?

[acidbath124]

i believe the design is pretty much done just have to get it welded up and get my car to a dyno to see how its going to work

[civicdrivr]

Nice. Im heading to the dyno later this week to get the results of the 09 TL manifold. I definately feel an improvement, I just want to see the numbers.

[acidbath124]

let us know how the numbers come out so we have something else to compare the manifold to

[civicdrivr]

Will do. The dyno session is scheduled for Friday at 430p EST :cool:

[Schu]

In for results...;)

[SpRuCe]

So what's up with the results ? I'd like to know. :)

Have you fixed the idle issue ? I saw you had a leak on your IM. Did you get a new one ?

[civicdrivr]

Yea, I temporarily fixed the idle issue. Im thinking it may be an issue with my FPR, but I have yet to test it. The car originally dyno'd 232/202 at the wheels in 80* heat. Yesturday it dyno'd 237/207 in 96* heat. I still have the exhaust leak, which is really killing power, and my valves REALLY need to be adjusted but Im doing that when I rebuild the motor.

The numbers just dont seem right to me. Even my baseline numbers were a bit low (232/202). Ive got headers/pulleys/Icebox and my baseline should have been in the 240whp range and torque should have been in the 210-215 range. It feels like much more then a 5whp gain. The heat didnt help much at all. Sadly there was nothing else yesturday running on the dyno, otherwise I could gauge whether or not the dyno is setup properly.

And to put this in perspective, my brother has an 08 Accord 6MT and he has a .3l advantage over me and a shorter final drive (3.55 vs my 2.86 IIRC) and my car is just as fast as his, if not faster in the top end. Both cars weigh about the same, and the 08+ Accord have been known to put down 240+ stock. Im confused :confused:

[hondaboy4life]

What kind of dyno?

[civicdrivr]

Dyno Jet.

[SpRuCe]

it was too hot.

You would have get better result on a colder day.

[Becoming]

Dyno Jet.

I'm assuming it was set to show SAE hp?

[civicdrivr]

Yes. Smoothing was set to 5.

[Schu]

pictures of your intake modifications please... :p

[civicdrivr]

pictures of your intake modifications please... :p

Mine?

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/civicdrivr/DSC03078.jpg

That pic was before I wired up the IMRC motor.

[wolydotmatrix]

Did you you get your idle squared away??

[civicdrivr]

For the most part. I got on the dyno last week and I am running lean (~18:1) until about 3500rpm. Im about to stroke the motor to 3.5l, so after that Ill get it tuned. Im not too worried about it right now.

[civicdrivr]

Becoming - are you still working on your manifold?

[acidbath124]

civicdriver-he went back to work so unfortunately it has been put on hold for the time being

[Chibi]

Mine?

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/civicdrivr/DSC03078.jpg

That pic was before I wired up the IMRC motor.



did it bolt right on? and what throttle body did you use for the IM?